FOSS and VST

[Louigi Verona]

VST is a proprietary format. So using VSTis is sort of bad.

On the other hand, two month into making music with Ubuntu, I find lack of top notch plugins the main problem of GNU/Linux music making - don't care about their design, there are simply not many good synths and effects. In fact, except for ZynSubAddFX there are no serious synths which I am aware of and apart from the calf pack I failed to find plugins that would work well - most of the plugins are just weird.

There are freeware VSTs, of course. Lots. Among them some are good, but most are not - and I know this for a fact since there was a period when I just tested freeware VSTs a lot. But is it any good for a dedicated free software user? After all, freeware is not free.

The best VSTs are from large companies which are proprietary with demo versions and licensing and not being able to share with your friend. Most people just use cracked versions anyway. In countries like USA I think people do pay.
But anyway - we have to admit - those proprietary plugins are fantastic. They do not give us freedom as citizens, but they put us in a difficult position as musicians.

Having moved to Ubuntu I came to appreciate the power of JACK and JACK Rack. LMMS is also a great app which is actively developed. But at the same time I stopped doing beautiful music. I just can't get the sound I want with what I have in Ubuntu. LADSPA collection is simply not that good and as for soft synths - there are almost none (that I know).

Anyway, thing is - I had a performance yesterday. And I needed to do some pads. I have spent a lot of time trying to do a pad and I couldn't - there was no plugin that would deliver a good result. Eventually I ended up trying every preset in ZynSubAddFX synth and putting filters and sweeps on it, but the result was just very... incomplete.

Lots of app I can't compile. I have been trying to compile JACK Mix which I really needed for my performance, but couldn't do it. I contacted even the developer and he also doesn't know what is wrong.

So what eventually I ended up doing was dual booting into Windows, opening FL Studio and coming up with fabulous pads in 20 minutes, using a vocoder and a couple of good filter sweep plugins and very good flangers. The reverb and delays which are built into FL Studio are also robust, while in LMMS I still spend a lot of time tuning a delay trying to get a basic effect. As for reverb - I still cannot reproduce what I want, no matter what kind of reverb I use - no matter what parameters I change, I just can't get what I want, while in FL Studio there is no problem with these basic plugins.

So, the question from all that whining - how do you find this situation, how are you dealing with it? Is it possible I am just ignorant of many great plugins available to GNU/Linux users?

[kaimerra]

Have you looked into DSSI(disposable soft synth interface...i think) at all? It is a open version of VST i believe. The only one I have played with is this one: http://dssi.sourceforge.net/hexter.html because it came with my 64 Studio installation.

A few other synths that I have used are Alsa Modular Synth and AMSynth. I currently use AMSynth for my live performance because it has the sound I want and I can map all the controls to the knobs on my MIDI controller.
Aeolus is a spledid organ synth and bristol looks like a great modeling synth, though I have yet to try it.
http://bristol.sourceforge.net/
There is a big list here: http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/categories/software_sound_synthesis_and_music_composition_packages

What is happening when your Jack Mix build fails? Paste us some errors and we might be able to help out.

[Louigi Verona]

Hey!
Thanks a million for those links to synths! I will definitely check them out and tell you about my impressions.

As for JackMix, I think you've found my topic. I did contact Arnold, he says it might be a bug. I will try your advise of no cache as well and post the result.

Cheers!

[zettberlin]

I do not see a lack of capable synths for Linux here but a lack of patches, that sound the way you like.
I find it hard to believe, that Zynadd AMS, Calfsynths and all their other collegues under Linux should not be able to render a usable pad-sound.

So here is the deal:

You post a sound here as ogg or mp3, that sounds the way you like it - regardless how you do it.

I'll try to reproduce that sound and post a demo and the patch.

I am not so much the electro-type so if anybody else feels intrigued by this challange: step in the ring
Maybe you can come up with a better result or maybe you could tune my patch further to the needs of
Louigi.

Either way: methinks, this problem can be solved

[Louigi Verona]

Okay, deal!

http://www.louigiverona.ru/files/Fmaj-Rain3pad.ogg

Here ya go. Made in around 10 minutes in FL Studio with an Orange Vocoder, Space Effect, two LFO, reverb and delay.

[studio32]

Whoehoe exiting challenge!

btw. I think we need supercollider/Csound for this?

[thorgal]

Ciao Louigi,

I would say: use FL Studio, why change ???
Just add a linux box on your network and redirect FL Studio (ASIO aware I am almost sure) to netjack. Your linux box will be the jack master and you can record inside ardour what comes from the netjack client (Windows with FL Studio).

I mean, you have a copy of FL Studio where you can produce stuff in 10mn. If you are enthusiastic about using linux for music as well, that's the road I would take : mix up windows and linux in one studio via a gigabit LAN. I am actually thinking about expanding my own when I have time. I will build a PC and install my valid copy of winXP. My current laptop is just too weak for that.

You know, I am not that new in some PC based music forums and most of the time, I see to much OS stuff (rant, ideological wars, jihad even) in ppl's sayings, which really clouds what they truly use their PC for. This is all about music. I wouldn't even consider spending my free time in front of a computer if it were not for music. So why argue about OS stuff ? If FL Studio cuts it for you, why ask for a replacement or challenge linux ?? or am I missing something ??

[Louigi Verona]

Perhaps. But using Csound programming to achieve what can be done with a vocoder and a sweeping filter is a bit like Doc made ice in Back to the future 3 =)

So while it would be fun to see how you can use Csound for this, it would perhaps be a bit more useful to see how can this be done with ladspa vocoder, which I never could understand how to use, and filters.

[Louigi Verona]

thorgal: You are right, but my goal is to stop using proprietary software and stick with free software. Unfortunately, I am not yet there as with music I do not a lot tools in Linux. I can already perform live my ambient music with linux, but not yet write it. So yeah, I am using FL Studio 6 in Wine from time to time. But I am also exploring Qtractor.

[studio32]

If you have learned supercollider, I bet you could do this also in 10 min.

@Thorgal, yes you are missing something. At the end it is that music matters most, but to say that it doesn't matter what kind of OS you use or whether you use FLOSS or proprietary software, is also not true at all. Also it's questionable whether having two computers in your set up, one with Windows, one with Linux connected via LAN, is an ideal situation.

[thorgal]

@Studio32: it is still not clear what I am missing from what you say. Could you explain more ?

[studio32]

@Thorgal, all I tried to say was, it makes difference whether you use proprietary or FLOSS software. You sounds like it doesn't matter at all. Then you're missing something.

[thorgal]

@Studio32, I roger that. But can you explain more what the difference is ? that's what I was asking.

Of course, I can see a lot of differences between the FOSS vs proprietary models. But when it comes to using the apps you already have (be they ardour or FL-Studio), this is where I am not sure I understand you. Louigi is able to make up something in 10mn with FL-Studio. I think that's great. Why he wants to get rid of it is a bit unclear, at least to me. Maybe he can explain better then ?

[Louigi Verona]

Hey thorgal!

Well, when you use proprietary software there are two things happening.

1. You continue to stick to it and get used to it and get more and more into it. I have used FL Studio for 7 years and today I am a specialist. I know lots and lots of tricks, I can do a lot of complex stuff with it. And it means with each day it would be tougher to switch to libre software.

2. By using proprietary software you involuntarily promote it among other musicians, who, if impressed by your work, would ask what tools you are using. It is bad enough that most musicians in the world are stuck with proprietary software, developers of which tell you you are a criminal if you share it with a friend.


Why not use proprietary music software?
I firmly believe that music tools should be in the hands of the people, not in the hands of several developers, who command you and would want you to stick with their business reasoning. Companies like Ableton and Image Line might deliver high quality products, but they do not deliver high quality freedom.

[thorgal]

Ciao Louigi,

1. You continue to stick to it and get used to it and get more and more into it. I have used FL Studio for 7 years and today I am a specialist. I know lots and lots of tricks, I can do a lot of complex stuff with it. And it means with each day it would be tougher to switch to libre software.

really ? I cannot say anything about your experience, that is yours, but that sounds a bit odd to me as it feels like it is a matter of choice above all else. I mean, knowing FL-Studio as you do is great, but does it really make you trapped in using it and nothing else ?

2. By using proprietary software you involuntarily promote it among other musicians, who, if impressed by your work, would ask what tools you are using. It is bad enough that most musicians in the world are stuck with proprietary software, developers of which tell you you are a criminal if you share it with a friend.

there again, not sure this is a generic statement as I also see it as a matter of choice (you can always feel free to share with your friend and not consider yourself as a criminal, despite what others may want you to feel). Nobody is stuck with prop. software, really. Isn't it a strong statement when free software is also available ?
And if you use a mix of free and prop softwares, wouldn't you involuntarily promote both ? especially the free one since it can be run against prop. software ?

Why not use proprietary music software?
I firmly believe that music tools should be in the hands of the people, not in the hands of several developers, who command you and would want you to stick with their business reasoning. Companies like Ableton and Image Line might deliver high quality products, but they do not deliver high quality freedom.

I tend to think the freedom is in you, how you feel about yourself and the things you are using.

In any case, it's all about choice. And your choice of dumping FL-Studio is perfectly fine, I just wanted to understand why you were giving up a 7 year experience. If you can reuse this experience elsewhere for the better, then all is cool I guess