KXStudio 12.04 release plans

[wolftune]

Thanks for the quick replies!

I know that Mint is basically repositories over Ubuntu, but it also changes the default installed applications too. Ok, I guess KXStudio repos did change apps and such also…

In all honesty, I appreciate the if-it-works don't change message. And the customize-however-you-like message. Both are great, and I'm still just getting comfortable with the workings of the GNU/Linux world.

My interest in the updates is primarily with my students in mind. I like to try lots of different things in order to find the best stuff to recommend to others. I'm far from capable of putting together my own entire distro at this point — nor am I knowledgeable enough to choose the best pieces of things, so I'm trying to figure out the best existing options to have my students up and running.

After volunteering to get two of my students set up, it turned out to be a far more tedious process than ideal. I had to help them partition for dual-boot, install Mint KDE, then go through a bunch of updates, then install KXStudio, then I got them the KDE 4.8 update, and finally setting up redshift (an essential I think ought to be included on every computer). Doing all that in one sitting was quite a hassle. The closer I can come to working upon one install the better. (Incidentally, I tried AV Linux, I know that and others are complete packages, but I really just prefer KXStudio for several reasons).

I'm trying not to get caught up in just always anticipating the latest updates. But at this point, what I'm really hoping for is the point where I can have a single straight-forward install that is basically KXStudio all configured with JACK and rtirq and the best overall software and everything (ideally redshift too, with the widget preinstalled!). If a good install can work right away, then people are through the door and they'll get into the slow process of learning the whole system after that… I think we're close, and I'm wondering if the new KXStudio will basically be the closest yet…

But I guess my question is whether I'll miss anything not using Mint. Is it actually sensible to install just the Mint updater in another system? I just like that level of conservative control over updates. Is that totally unique to Mint?

[falkTX]

I hear you. I had some (kernel) issues during some 10.04 updates some time ago... so I know how it is.
Still, this is not my fault, but Canonical/Ubuntu. You can get the updater from LinuxMint, it shouldn't be too hard, but as far as default KXStudio ISOs go I'm not sure I'll use it or not.

Although I know that having such tool would be cool, I don't want to get into much work about this kind of details. The ISO will just be a helper for new people with slow internet, that want to try a demo of it, show it to someone, or other small usecases. Really, I don't want the ISO (ie, as a Linux Distribution) to become the definitive KXStudio thing, because it is not, and never will be.
I still want to maintain the shared resources idea of KXStudio (meant to help users get a system as they want, and not force a specific DE).
I hope I'm being clear here. It's not that I don't care, but this kind of things force me to go into the next step in making KXStudio a super distro - and I kinda don't want that.
Focus should be (in order of importance) the Cadence tools, then repositories and then meta-packages

Anyway, I never seen a GUI that was good enough for updates, so my usual upgrade method is CLI:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

A simple solution is to tell your students to don't update the system unless you tell them to do so. If everyone uses the same base system, you can be the tester - if all works ok, tell them to upgrade.

[wolftune]

Fair enough. I'm happy to continue mostly thinking of KXStudio as this superb set of repos to apply on top of a base distro. I certainly see the advantages to that.

As to updating in general, I like being able to tell students that they can trust the Mint updater for the most part. They get Firefox updates, LibreOffice updates, KDE updates… and the less certain updates are marked "unsafe" by the updater automatically. As a specific example, right now the kernel update for 3.0.0.17.20 is marked "dangerous" (level 5) by the updater, so I'm not even installing it myself. I don't have time to take random risks. But most of the updates I've installed have been helpful. Overall, I just like having information so I can be in control. The command-line upgrade and the Muon system didn't tell me anything. My main focus isn't the GUI, it's the ability to be told when an update tested well or not…

At any rate, there's a simple practical matter for me of getting my students set to go initially with a minimum of time. If a complete KXStudio package doesn't have too many downsides over installing MintKDE first, then it's worth it just for the time saving on install day.

Anyway, thanks again so much for your time and everything!!

[slowpick]

This is all beta software. And that is not a statement of quality, but of
the perpetual state of flux environment that linux software resides in.
Once you have a stable system, use package installers like synaptic, to update an app
if there is some significant new feature, or bugfix. Then back to music.

Updater apps/scripts should be tested on usb stick, or spare-drive installs.
I think my stable system has had 3 linux updates within one distro, and one new video card,
in 6 years. On the xp partition of the same setup, I have only added SP3 in the same time span.

If students have diverse unique computers, amplify this sentiment by orders of magnitude.
It's your sanity, that allows you to work.

[wolftune]

Thanks slow, that's reasonable. I guess it's just too easy to be continually seduced by new features and fixes and such… I'm just so excited about future possibilities… but I ought to get away from all that and get to actually producing results from my system.
Still, I'm looking forward to the new developments in KXStudio…!

[slowpick]

Falk has identified what users want most, and has put his full weight to the plow,
so it's guaranteed that people hope for news every day. Can one imagine
an IBM size team of people with such determination ?

[falkTX]

One of the major things I wanted to do for release has been completed - a Calf plugins fork with re-added features:
https://github.com/falkTX/calf

In case you don't know, LADSPA and DSSI support were removed from Calf in their latest git version.
Calf has a great suite of plugins, but not all hosts support LV2.
This makes it possible to use them again, even on their latest of latest versions

LV2 external-UI was also something I needed for Carla (Calf removed support for it and went for Gtk+ UI only).
So Carla will load the Calf UIs nicely again.

[wolftune]

Woohoo!

[ufug]

I have nothing to add but another voice to cheer you on!

I'm very excited to build my LTS KXStudio.

[anko]

first, hi falkTX and kudos on what yr doing with kxstudio!

i've just set up a new *buntu 12.04 system (precise perfectly stable now, release in just a few days), so my question is the obvious one, when do you think there will be a 12.04 ppa up by?

i couldn't find an estimate on this on the website and tried irc but there were just tumbleweeds blowing through there and the sound of crickets.

agin, thanks for your excellent work.

[anko]

/me answers me... heh, i just went to the ppa site and searched the subdirs and found the precice repo... sorry for the static.

as for your default DE question, since ubuntustudio uses xfce why not use xfce...?? it's full featured and light, which is probably why they chose it.

[wolftune]

My vote for DE, as a relatively uninformed newbie, is to stick to KDE and plan for moving to razor-qt when it's mature enough.

[falkTX]

The KXStudio PPAs will not be fully ready for 12.04 in time. Today I'll try to update the kxstudio-welcome and some basic kxstudio packages, so at least the KXStudio side of things is complete (Cadence py3 port is not complete yet, so we'll be using the old code for now).
Meta-packages and other stuff will come later, in whatever time I have to make those.

KDE will be the default DE again, with XFCE being the second supported DE. The others will be supported some time later. (anyone willing to help here would be appreciated).
For 14.04 I'll make my own DE, something like this:
http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/tmp/scr026.png
Still a long a way to go for that, I haven't even wrote the DE specs yet.

[anko]

btw i just encountered a buglet while installing kxstudio-default-settings over ubuntustudio 12.04, and filed bug #987618 on launchpad.

anko.

[falkTX]

btw i just encountered a buglet while installing kxstudio-default-settings over ubuntustudio 12.04, and filed bug #987618 on launchpad.

anko.

Ignore that bug then (mark as invalid). I reworked all the kxstudio packages but haven't uploaded them yet.
Soon I'll delete all of them for precise and start uploading only what's ready.
This will make sure I know what is done and what is left to do (for once, meta-packages will be missing, on purpose)